[ltp] Re: X30 linux installation

[Phil]

Oisin

Thanks for the response. I agree that this in not the right forum for 
this debate and I apologise for clogging the bandwidth so I won't pick 
up on each of your responses. However I do have issues with running 
Linux on my Thinkpad that have not been addressed, and isn't what this 
forum is about?

Unfortunately it's not just a question of whether the graphics card is 
supported by Xorg (if not, why not?) but whether all the other 
components (sound, disk shock protection, suspend/hibernate, network 
card/wireless support etc etc) will happily play together. Show me the 
matrix where I can choose which  features and drawbacks I need to assess 
and I can make a decision. Unfortunately that isn't available.

One of the guarantees I get from running Windows on a Thinkpad is that 
everything will work. The downside is that I have to put up with an 
operating system that among other things can't multitask effectively, 
suffers severe security issues, has a completely broken model for 
supporting additional software, and is completely opaque when things go 
wrong. Right now I have to choose to accept the downsides because (as 
I've discovered at considerable time cost) the particular model I own 
does not have the level of functionality with Linux to allow me to do my 
job.

I'm currently in the market for a new laptop, and given my positive 
experiences with the quality of Thinkpads, I'm considering a T60. 
However there's enough posting on this list regarding problems to make 
me wonder whether my choice of o/s and/or hardware is a good one. Let me 
turn it round and ask for a recommendation for a powerful, light, 
high-resolution laptop, that supports dual-head, wireless ethernet, 
bluetooth and so on.

Cheers
Phil

Oisin Feeley wrote:
> On 3/30/07, Phil <phil@stairbridge.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> The thing that consigns Linux to being a second class citizen is the
>> lack of capabilities that people assume all O/Ss have. It has b***er all
>> to do with non-free binary-blobs/firmware. While people in the
>> open-source world continue to delude themselves that purity is more
>> important than functionality they'll continue to produce second-rate
>> software.
>
> Well, given that this is a useful technical mailing list instead of a
> place for debating I guess we should take this elsewhere.  Probably
> you can also guess exactly what my response is going to be to the
> above, however, just in case:
>
> it's /exactly/ because of non-free binaries that the two problems you
> specifically mention (video card and printing support) exist.  It has
> /everything/ to do with manufacturers realising they can pawn off
> temporary fixes for some of the people some of the time that we get
> stuck with continuing instability of these devices.  They will
> continue to take that strategy as long as we continue to buy their
> hardware.
>
> Your characterisation of the argument as being about "purity" is
> something you've just pulled out of your imagination.  The reason for
> buying hardware which is supported by Free software is that it is more
> likely to work and continue working.  Problems can and will get fixed
> with Free software.  They don't with closed non-Free blobs.  It's that
> simple.  If someone wants a hassle-free laptop experience then
> speccing the hardware to make sure that the graphics card is supported
> by the Xorg project (especially the recent integrated Intel chips
> which are fine unless you're a hardcore gamer), that the printer is
> one of the HP models (supported by HP's GPL'ed software) etc is the
> easiest way to go.   It's just pragmatic, nothing to do with purity or
> morality.   I dont' hate windows, I just don't use it and have no need
> for it.  Similarly I don't hate non-Free software, I just don't want
> the troubles of dealing with it and can't see why anyone would unless
> they're: 1)a gamer (in which case why use a laptop) or 2) dependent on
> a proprietary application for work purposes.
>
> Linux isn't a moral crusade, it's a pragmatic, utilitarian approach to
> controlling the hardware and software that you own.  (Don't forget
> that RMS's initial motiviation is supposed to have been trying to get
> a new printer to work and the manufacturer refusing him the
> information to write the driver).
>
> Anyway, this is all irrelevant to the main purpose of the list and I
> apologise for degrading the signal/noise.
>
> Best wishes,
> Oisin