[ltp] More war stories about Lenovo build quality

Adrian Walker linux-thinkpad@linux-thinkpad.org
Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:54:20 -0400


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David --

I have an X60s with Redhat Fedora 6.  It's been running for about a year.
No hardware problems, touch wood.

There's no fingerprint reader, and I have not got around to trying wireless
yet, but everything else works and seems an improvement on previous Linuxes.

The high end battery lasts more than 4 hours.  Memory sticks and a 5-year
old external CD writer are plug and play.

So perhaps Fedora is gaining on Ubuntu?

                                 HTH,  -- Adrian

Internet Business Logic
A Wiki and SOA Endpoint for Executable Open Vocabulary English over SQL
Online at www.reengineeringllc.com    Shared use is free

Adrian Walker
Reengineering

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 1:41 PM, David A. Desrosiers <desrod@gnu-designs.com>
wrote:

>
> I've had my shiny new Thinkpads (T61p/X61s) for 2-3 weeks now, and
> they're already going back to the depot for repair/replacement. I'm
> shocked and dismayed at the horrible build quality of these units.
>
> The X61s is going back first. It currently runs WinXP, so I can use
> the internal WWAN card to get on AT&T to work while on my 5 hours of
> commute per-day into the office.
>
> <rant state="begin">
>
> The issues with the X61s so far are:
>
>        1. Loose/floppy screen and hinge. I can pick up the laptop
>            gently from the base, and the LCD will slowly lean back and
>            flop over. If the LCD is anything but perfectly 90-degrees,
>            it will either slowly close itself, or slowly lean
>            backwards until it is horizontal with the table surface.
>
>        2. Fingerprint reader overheats and stops working (and because
>            of that issue, I can no longer log into the machine _at
>            all_, because it deleted the stored fingerprint data, which
>            confuses the ThinkVantage Access Connections app, and forbids
>            me from re-enrolling my fingerprints. I literally log in
>            with a password, and it immediately logs me back out, even in
>            Safe Mode). GRRR! Now I can't use it to work at all.
>
>        3. The LCD currently has 3 bad pixels, up from 1 bad pixel a
>            few days ago. When it was new, there were zero bad pixels.
>
>        4. The battery life with the new battery (FRU/42T5247) using
>            "Maximum Battery" strategy in WinXP is 45 minutes, tops.
>
>        5. The external wireless switch is loose, and tipping the
>            laptop will engage/disengage the switch all the time. While
>            on the train, the switch vibrates itself to the Off position
>            dropping my VPN connection constantly. I've had to tape it in
>            place to keep it from moving.
>
> I can't believe for laptops that are barely a month old, I've already
> run into this many problems with it.
>
> The T61p has its own share of issues, many of which are due to moving
> to the latest Ubuntu on the machine. I require the latest
> bleeding-edge distro, so I can test my FLOSS code against it, before
> distribution packagers go shipping broken packages that contain my
> code to thousands of users.
>
> The major outstanding issues with that are:
>
>        1. Fingerprint reader overheats excessively and then fails to
>            function. Thinkfinger has some serious bugs related to
>            this, which exposes my typed password in cleartext if I'm
>            not careful.
>
>        2. The CPU regularly runs at 157F or higher, with nothing at
>            all loaded or running. Because of this, I have to set the
>            fan on full-speed at startup through APCI, which sounds
>            like a jet engine in meetings and in the office.
>
>        3. At some random interval, the keyboard decides to "forget"
>            how to use ctrl/alt/shift keys, and thus I can't function at
>            all in X. I can't open new applications, because typing in
>            them crashes the app. I can't use keyboard shortcuts, I
>            can't function in existing shells. The only way to fix that
>            is to go to System -> Preferences -> Keyboard, change it to
>            something else (without typing anything, or I'll crash the
>            Keyboard applet), then change it back again. It happens a
>            few times a day, every day. VERRRRY frustrating. I don't
>            know if this is hardware-driven or some bug in Ubuntu.
>
>        4. X is wildly unstable. I can reproducably get GNOME + X to
>            completely crash back to a shell, recycling gdm, by simply
>            trying to run anything in Wine. Sometimes if I just leave
>            the machine idle with X running and walk away, I'll come
>            back and be at a gdm login prompt, because at some point X
>            dumped and recycled gdm again. This may be due to the
>            unstable, proprietary NVidia drivers or something else. It
>            was a huge mistake selecting NVidia as my graphics chipset
>            for a laptop in Linux.
>
>        5. Wireless is only enabled via shell scripts. NetworkManager
>            in Ubuntu does absolutely nothing, except take up
>            resources. In Gutsy on my T42p, wpa_supplicant would start
>            at boot time, read its config, and wireless would be
>            enabled without logging in. With Hardy + NetworkManager, I
>            have to physically log into the machine, open a shell, run
>            a script to start wireless (basically modprobe, iwconfig,
>            ifconfig commands), and then it starts.
>
>            That isn't a Lenovo issue, of course. It's an Ubuntu issue.
>            With each new Ubuntu release, more features are removed in
>            favor of replacing them with broken applications which
>            serve no logical purpose. Gutsy had no need for
>            NetworkManager and networking worked flawlessly there.
>
> I'm about to give up 14+ years of working with and developing
> on Linux because it seems that with each new year, it gets more and
> more unstable, more and more things cease functioning, and I spend
> more time fighting the configuration of my own environment than using
> it to increase my productivity.
>
> I'm probably going to just cut bait and buy a Mac soon. At least I can
> still run all of my FLOSS packages there, and not ever have to worry
> about the hardware or functioning drivers/support.
>
> </rant state="end">
> --
> The linux-thinkpad mailing list home page is at:
> http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad
>

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David --<br><br>I have an X60s with Redhat Fedora 6.&nbsp; It&#39;s been running for about a year.&nbsp; No hardware problems, touch wood.<br><br>There&#39;s no fingerprint reader, and I have not got around to trying wireless yet, but everything else works and seems an improvement on previous Linuxes.<br>
<br>The high end battery lasts more than 4 hours.&nbsp; Memory sticks and a 5-year old external CD writer are plug and play.&nbsp; <br><br>So perhaps Fedora is gaining on Ubuntu?&nbsp; <br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; HTH,&nbsp; -- Adrian<br>
<br>Internet Business Logic<br>A Wiki and SOA Endpoint for Executable Open Vocabulary English over SQL<br>Online at <a href="http://www.reengineeringllc.com">www.reengineeringllc.com</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Shared use is free<br><br>Adrian Walker<br>
Reengineering<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 1:41 PM, David A. Desrosiers &lt;<a href="mailto:desrod@gnu-designs.com">desrod@gnu-designs.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
I&#39;ve had my shiny new Thinkpads (T61p/X61s) for 2-3 weeks now, and<br>
they&#39;re already going back to the depot for repair/replacement. I&#39;m<br>
shocked and dismayed at the horrible build quality of these units.<br>
<br>
The X61s is going back first. It currently runs WinXP, so I can use<br>
the internal WWAN card to get on AT&amp;T to work while on my 5 hours of<br>
commute per-day into the office.<br>
<br>
&lt;rant state=&quot;begin&quot;&gt;<br>
<br>
The issues with the X61s so far are:<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1. Loose/floppy screen and hinge. I can pick up the laptop<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;gently from the base, and the LCD will slowly lean back and<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;flop over. If the LCD is anything but perfectly 90-degrees,<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;it will either slowly close itself, or slowly lean<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;backwards until it is horizontal with the table surface.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2. Fingerprint reader overheats and stops working (and because<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;of that issue, I can no longer log into the machine _at<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;all_, because it deleted the stored fingerprint data, which<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;confuses the ThinkVantage Access Connections app, and forbids<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;me from re-enrolling my fingerprints. I literally log in<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;with a password, and it immediately logs me back out, even in<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Safe Mode). GRRR! Now I can&#39;t use it to work at all.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;3. The LCD currently has 3 bad pixels, up from 1 bad pixel a<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;few days ago. When it was new, there were zero bad pixels.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;4. The battery life with the new battery (FRU/42T5247) using<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Maximum Battery&quot; strategy in WinXP is 45 minutes, tops.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;5. The external wireless switch is loose, and tipping the<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;laptop will engage/disengage the switch all the time. While<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;on the train, the switch vibrates itself to the Off position<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;dropping my VPN connection constantly. I&#39;ve had to tape it in<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;place to keep it from moving.<br>
<br>
I can&#39;t believe for laptops that are barely a month old, I&#39;ve already<br>
run into this many problems with it.<br>
<br>
The T61p has its own share of issues, many of which are due to moving<br>
to the latest Ubuntu on the machine. I require the latest<br>
bleeding-edge distro, so I can test my FLOSS code against it, before<br>
distribution packagers go shipping broken packages that contain my<br>
code to thousands of users.<br>
<br>
The major outstanding issues with that are:<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1. Fingerprint reader overheats excessively and then fails to<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;function. Thinkfinger has some serious bugs related to<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;this, which exposes my typed password in cleartext if I&#39;m<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;not careful.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2. The CPU regularly runs at 157F or higher, with nothing at<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;all loaded or running. Because of this, I have to set the<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;fan on full-speed at startup through APCI, which sounds<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;like a jet engine in meetings and in the office.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;3. At some random interval, the keyboard decides to &quot;forget&quot;<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to use ctrl/alt/shift keys, and thus I can&#39;t function at<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;all in X. I can&#39;t open new applications, because typing in<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;them crashes the app. I can&#39;t use keyboard shortcuts, I<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;can&#39;t function in existing shells. The only way to fix that<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;is to go to System -&gt; Preferences -&gt; Keyboard, change it to<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;something else (without typing anything, or I&#39;ll crash the<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Keyboard applet), then change it back again. It happens a<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;few times a day, every day. VERRRRY frustrating. I don&#39;t<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;know if this is hardware-driven or some bug in Ubuntu.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;4. X is wildly unstable. I can reproducably get GNOME + X to<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;completely crash back to a shell, recycling gdm, by simply<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;trying to run anything in Wine. Sometimes if I just leave<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the machine idle with X running and walk away, I&#39;ll come<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;back and be at a gdm login prompt, because at some point X<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;dumped and recycled gdm again. This may be due to the<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;unstable, proprietary NVidia drivers or something else. It<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;was a huge mistake selecting NVidia as my graphics chipset<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;for a laptop in Linux.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;5. Wireless is only enabled via shell scripts. NetworkManager<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;in Ubuntu does absolutely nothing, except take up<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;resources. In Gutsy on my T42p, wpa_supplicant would start<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;at boot time, read its config, and wireless would be<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;enabled without logging in. With Hardy + NetworkManager, I<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;have to physically log into the machine, open a shell, run<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;a script to start wireless (basically modprobe, iwconfig,<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;ifconfig commands), and then it starts.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;That isn&#39;t a Lenovo issue, of course. It&#39;s an Ubuntu issue.<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;With each new Ubuntu release, more features are removed in<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;favor of replacing them with broken applications which<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;serve no logical purpose. Gutsy had no need for<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;NetworkManager and networking worked flawlessly there.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m about to give up 14+ years of working with and developing<br>
on Linux because it seems that with each new year, it gets more and<br>
more unstable, more and more things cease functioning, and I spend<br>
more time fighting the configuration of my own environment than using<br>
it to increase my productivity.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m probably going to just cut bait and buy a Mac soon. At least I can<br>
still run all of my FLOSS packages there, and not ever have to worry<br>
about the hardware or functioning drivers/support.<br>
<br>
&lt;/rant state=&quot;end&quot;&gt;<br>
<font color="#888888">--<br>
The linux-thinkpad mailing list home page is at:<br>
<a href="http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad" target="_blank">http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad</a><br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

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