[ltp] Re: T61 Gutsy > Hardy upgrade almost fixed stuff
David A. Desrosiers
linux-thinkpad@linux-thinkpad.org
Tue, 6 May 2008 08:39:26 -0400
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On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Marius Gedminas <mgedmin@b4net.lt> wrote:
> First, a disclaimer: for some people Network Manager indeed does not
> work. Sometimes it is a matter of misconfiguration, but more often
> there are bugs either in the wifi driver, or in network-manager itself.
>
Wired and wireless networking works flawlessly on my T61p and always have.
Never a single problem with it, nor with my T42p prior to this. No bugs in
the driver that I can find or have encountered. I see people complaining
about networking on this particular model of laptop, but I've never seen any
problems whatsoever with it.
This is a tool that shows you what network you've successfully connected
> to in the past. Network Manager will automatically reconnect to any of
> those, if it finds them, but won't connect to new networks unless you
> explicitly ask. This, however, is not clearly explained anywhere in the
> user interface.
So the tool called "nm-editor" isn't really an editor at all then? Why isn't
it called "nm-viewer" or something similar then? Why doesn't "nm-tool" show
the networks I've connected to in the past, including the one I'm *currently
connected to* as I compose this message? Why not integrate the
"functionality" of nm-editor into nm-tool, and remove the useless "editor"
component of the suite?
> This is bad. You should have found a new icon in your notification
> area. Your GNOME panel does have a notification area? If not, you can
> add one.
Yep, I have a notification area, which I use to switch around to various
apps (mostly a very buggy java one used by my vpn into work, which I can
only ever see in the notification area)
Also, if you have configured your wireless device in
> /etc/network/interfaces (by, for example, using Ubuntu's System ->
> Administration -> Network), then Network Manager will assume you want a
> static configuration and will then ignore your wireless card.
Going to System -> Administration -> Network presents me with the following
panel (even when "network-admin" is run from a root shell):
http://code.gnu-designs.com/hardy_network-admin.png
Note that "Unlock" is greyed out (even as root), and I can't click either of
the two interfaces shown in the main "Connections" area. Everything else on
the other tabs is greyed out as well. Not a very useful way to configure or
administer networking.
Also, my networking is configured in wpa_supplicant (and has to be), and it
is defined in /etc/network/interfaces as follows:
iface ath0 inet static
# Not my real IP
address 1.2.3.4
netmask 255.255.255.0
# Not my real gateway
gateway 1.2.3.1
wpa-driver wext
wpa-key-mgmt WPA-PSK
wpa-proto WPA2
wpa-ssid Not My Real SSID
When Network Manager works, all you have to do is click on its icon in
> the notification area, and select the wireless network you want to
> connect to. If that network is protected, you'll get a popup asking for
> the password/passphrase/key/whatever. If you don't find the network you
> want to connect to, wait a few seconds and look again.
Ok, so it appears that there are bugs with Network Manager, nm-applet,
nm-editor, network-admin and a few other things under those (dbus-glib, hal,
etc.) I'll have to go plowing through and find-and-file those, or ignore
that pile of tools that are broken, and replace them with my own solution. I
can spend hours and hours of endless testing/fighting/testing and still come
up with the same results; non-functioning networking using these tools, or I
can put that time towards solving the problem at hand. I think I'll choose
the latter.
> If this doesn't work, you can either invest days of your time trying to
> figure out where the problem is, filing bug reports, gathering
> information, or you could ignore it, use your own custom scripts and
> flame on the lists.
Well, fundamentally, Network Manager is flawed by design anyway, since it
requires a graphical login and interactive input to connect to a wireless
network, while my own scripts do not.
What if I don't want to log in, but I need my machine on the network? What
if I'm running headless? What if I don't run KDE or GNOME or any of the
applet-specific tools and libraries? How does networking function in the
absence of all of that?
This was also not necessary with Gutsy or Feisty, and wpa_supplicant would
run at boot time and configure the network for me. In Hardy, this is no
longer the case (yet another thing was changed/broken for no obvious
reason). So I have to start wpa_supplicant from a script which is kicked off
in /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh. Not elegant, but it gets me back to where I need
to be.
While it is completely useless for you, it is extremely useful for me
> and a few thousand other people.
And likewise, fails for a few thousand others. Shrug.
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On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Marius Gedminas <<a href="mailto:mgedmin@b4net.lt">mgedmin@b4net.lt</a>> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
First, a disclaimer: for some people Network Manager indeed does not<br>
work. Sometimes it is a matter of misconfiguration, but more often<br>
there are bugs either in the wifi driver, or in network-manager itself.<br></blockquote><div><br>Wired and wireless networking works flawlessly on my T61p and always have. Never a single problem with it, nor with my T42p prior to this. No bugs in the driver that I can find or have encountered. I see people complaining about networking on this particular model of laptop, but I've never seen any problems whatsoever with it.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">This is a tool that shows you what network you've successfully connected<br>
to in the past. Network Manager will automatically reconnect to any of<br>
those, if it finds them, but won't connect to new networks unless you<br>
explicitly ask. This, however, is not clearly explained anywhere in the<br>
user interface.</blockquote><div><br>So the tool called "nm-editor" isn't really an editor at all then? Why isn't it called "nm-viewer" or something similar then? Why doesn't "nm-tool" show the networks I've connected to in the past, including the one I'm <i>currently connected to</i> as I compose this message? Why not integrate the "functionality" of nm-editor into nm-tool, and remove the useless "editor" component of the suite?<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">This is bad. You should have found a new icon in your notification<br>
area. Your GNOME panel does have a notification area? If not, you can<br>
add one.</blockquote><div><br>Yep, I have a notification area, which I use to switch around to various apps (mostly a very buggy java one used by my vpn into work, which I can only ever see in the notification area)<br><br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Also, if you have configured your wireless device in<br>
/etc/network/interfaces (by, for example, using Ubuntu's System -><br>
Administration -> Network), then Network Manager will assume you want a<br>
static configuration and will then ignore your wireless card.</blockquote><div><br>Going to System -> Administration -> Network presents me with the following panel (even when "network-admin" is run from a root shell): <br>
<br><a href="http://code.gnu-designs.com/hardy_network-admin.png">http://code.gnu-designs.com/hardy_network-admin.png</a><br><br>Note that "Unlock" is greyed out (even as root), and I can't click either of the two interfaces shown in the main "Connections" area. Everything else on the other tabs is greyed out as well. Not a very useful way to configure or administer networking.<br>
<br>Also, my networking is configured in wpa_supplicant (and has to be), and it is defined in /etc/network/interfaces as follows: <br><br>iface ath0 inet static<br># Not my real IP<br>address <a href="http://1.2.3.4">1.2.3.4</a><br>
netmask <a href="http://255.255.255.0">255.255.255.0</a><br># Not my real gateway<br>gateway <a href="http://1.2.3.1">1.2.3.1</a><br>wpa-driver wext<br>wpa-key-mgmt WPA-PSK<br>wpa-proto WPA2<br>wpa-ssid Not My Real SSID<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
When Network Manager works, all you have to do is click on its icon in<br>
the notification area, and select the wireless network you want to<br>
connect to. If that network is protected, you'll get a popup asking for<br>
the password/passphrase/key/whatever. If you don't find the network you<br>
want to connect to, wait a few seconds and look again.</blockquote><div><br>Ok, so it appears that there are bugs with Network Manager, nm-applet, nm-editor, network-admin and a few other things under those (dbus-glib, hal, etc.) I'll have to go plowing through and find-and-file those, or ignore that pile of tools that are broken, and replace them with my own solution. I can spend hours and hours of endless testing/fighting/testing and still come up with the same results; non-functioning networking using these tools, or I can put that time towards solving the problem at hand. I think I'll choose the latter.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
If this doesn't work, you can either invest days of your time trying to<br>
figure out where the problem is, filing bug reports, gathering<br>
information, or you could ignore it, use your own custom scripts and<br>
flame on the lists.</blockquote><div><br>Well, fundamentally, Network Manager is flawed by design anyway, since it requires a graphical login and interactive input to connect to a wireless network, while my own scripts do not. <br>
<br>What if I don't want to log in, but I need my machine on the network? What if I'm running headless? What if I don't run KDE or GNOME or any of the applet-specific tools and libraries? How does networking function in the absence of all of that? <br>
</div><br>This was also not necessary with Gutsy or Feisty, and wpa_supplicant
would run at boot time and configure the network for me. In Hardy, this
is no longer the case (yet another thing was changed/broken for no
obvious reason). So I have to start wpa_supplicant from a script which
is kicked off in /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh. Not elegant, but it gets me
back to where I need to be.<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
While it is completely useless for you, it is extremely useful for me<br>
and a few thousand other people.</blockquote><div><br>And likewise, fails for a few thousand others. Shrug. <br><br></div></div>
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