[ltp] Distributions

[Richard Neill]

Frank,

Here are a few points which may be of of use in reply.

1)Mandrake has the advantage of being a fully GPL distro. So, you can 
download 9.0 for free (as in beer). Try an internet cafe. In my 
experience, you /can/ safely buy the CDs from Cheapbytes or similar  - 
and if you want to check they are OK, use "md5sum" to verify their 
integrity. You should also (by now) be able to get the boxed set from 
Mandrakestore.com.

2)Windows software - you can run most of it using WINE. You can get an 
rpm from codeweavers.com (for free). It depends how complex it  is - but 
  generally, if it doesn't involve special hardware or graphics 
acceleration, it will probably work well enough. (Get the codeweavers 
wine - Mandrake's version isn't actually as good).

3)Copying executables from one distro to another: in principle, this 
should work but in practice, it usually won't! The binaries are compiled 
with the particular set of libraries in mind, and with a specific 
version of gcc. That means that weird things can happen. With Mandrake, 
you should install using urpmi if at all possible. (Urpmi is Mandrake's 
attempt to make rpm act like Debian's apt-get).

4)In general, Linux (nowadays), although it has a very steep learning 
curve, is capable of anything you ask of it - you just need to figure 
out how. There are multiple ways to do things. I would advise that you 
should steer clear of any linux book or distro that is over 1 year old.

Richard


Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote:
> Hi All, and especially Pam, Tod and Richard who have given me such great 
> advice.
> 
> Because several comments have been made concerning my running Mandrake 8.2 and 
> not Mandrake 9.0 I am going to stick my neck way way out and describe my 
> experience with distributions.
> 
> Note please folks these are my experiences my reasoning - not yours - so lets 
> not have a war over this. If fact most like I will not even answer a posting 
> consering this. But I say this biting tong in cheek some of these experiences 
> could help some of the more experienced and more knowledgable programmers in 
> the realm of seeing what the current situation is like from the point of a 
> long term low level armature.
> 
> Here in West Central Florida the 5 top distributions in order are: Red Hat 
> (RH), Mandrake (MD), SuSE, Debian, and Gentoo 
> (http://www.gentoo.org/index.xml).
> 
> The first distribution we ( actually the computer club) on my old computer was 
> SuSE 6.0. I found that I did not understand the configuration, could not edit 
> the configuration files, and could not get it to connect to my ISP and that 
> no amount of help (either SuSE or the computer club) could solve my ISP 
> problems. Now SuSE may be a very fine distribution if you can do things their 
> way but if you must configure your computer with a nonstandard very odd ball 
> configuration do to the applications that you are executing then it is very 
> confining. Thus for this reason I rank it a very poor 5 as for as engineering 
> (electrical power systems) usage. 
> 
> In disgust I switched to RH 6.0. After installation I was on line 20 minutes 
> after my first discussion with RH support. My old ISP was blocking non 
> Windows systems. I changed ISP; problem solved.
> 
> A year or two later I built a box and I installed RH 7.0, 7.1, 7.3, and then 
> 8.0 personal. Bluntly, I do not like 8.0; infact to put it mildly I rank RH 
> 8.0 (not RH 7.X) way below SuSE. The problems are astronomical and I do mean 
> problems and by problems I mean things that do not function correctly (as per 
> Linux standards). That was on my desktop. Three months ago for business 
> reasons I purchased an A20P Thinkpad to which I first attempted to install RH 
> 8.0. 
> 
> But before describing the RH 8.0 installation experience their came the 
> partition issue. For a number of reasons all comming down to the basic issue 
> that if it ain't MS Windows "electrical power equipment supply companies" 
> will not supply programs that are required for me to condust business I need 
> a dual boot box. I also need the data to be secure form my computer screw 
> ups. All this means that I decided that the best approach would to split the 
> HD into three sectors:MS Windows, Common Data, and Linux. To do this split I 
> purchased Partition Magic 7.0. Here became a major issue PM 7.0 did not for 
> me work correctly with Linux partitions. The final results being that I 
> partitioned the MS Windows side with PM 7.0 and the Linux side with which 
> ever Linux distribution I was attempting to install while the Common_Data 
> partition was up for grabs. 
> 
> Without going through a two week trial and error experience the issue with 
> Common_Data became "The Issue". First I set for fat32 but RH 8.0 and SuSE 8.2 
> refused to acknowledge it existence. Then I tried fat but could not get it to 
> go over 2032 MB. Then being discussed with RH 8.0 and SuSE 8.2 I bought 
> Mandrake 8.2. More on the RH and SuSE issue in a moment. Anyway back to 
> partitioning I installed the Mandrake 8.2 my partition problems as far as my 
> operating system went away (doing expert installation). But! Now after 
> installing Mandrake and adjusting my partitions RH 8.0 and SuSE 8.2 will not 
> acknowledge the existing partition structure. The machine does is and is 
> quite happy but RH and SuSE do not. That becomes latter.
> 
> Back to the installations. Well being a loyal RH addict I tried RH 8.0 on the 
> new box. Think was that it would be easy to correct the RH setup. Not so but 
> that was the thinking. Well first I could not get it to install. Now I have 
> done over a hundred RH installation generally I must admit because I screw 
> something up, haven't the fainest idea of how to fix it, and solve the 
> problem by reinstalling the system. Point is I had gotten good at it. I could 
> do an installation, take a shower, eat, and conclude it as fast as the CD 
> would read the data and install it. 
> 
> Then I hit RH 8.0 on the Thinkpad. First I couldn't get it to work - and I 
> mean basically work as a GUI installation. Here I mean the system after the 
> installation not the installation process. Solve this by installing for 
> command line (user level 3) not 5 (GUI). Started X and had GUI but what a 
> shitty screen. Two points "Bluecurve" and the level of screen flicker 
> rendered the screen unusable at times. Not all times but at times. Decided to 
> try to install XF86 from SuSE which had a perfect screen in 2D. Problem 
> appeared to be solved but not sure. Then I tried to switch to GUI start up 
> direct with out going through command line. System would start and 
> immediately crash. Solved that by removal of "Bluecurve Login" and using "KDE 
> Login GUI". Then I tried to initiate KDE. That is when I finally gave up and 
> went off to the old computer store. Note the sequence as described here is a 
> wee bit more complex but this is close.
> 
> Well at the old computer store I had a choice of SuSE 8.2 or Mandrake 8.2. Now 
> knowing that Mandrake 9.0 was out and knowing that Mandrake was similar to RH 
> I chose SuSE. Bad choice for my usage. Installation went perfectly. Programs 
> ran perfect. But! I ran head up against my old configuration problem. I could 
> not get my strange configuration to stay on the SuSE system. I would change 
> the configuration only to find upon reboot that the system restore had 
> reconfigured the box again. Having no desires I wrote my $40 off as a lesson 
> in what not to do and went and got the Mandrake 8.2 even though I had rather 
> have had the Mandrake 9.0.
> 
> Now purchasing Mandrake 9.0 I put in the same category as attempting to buy 
> cheap CD from some of the cheap CD places. Here maybe I am showing my bull 
> headiness, stupidity, or maybe my knowledge of people but I never like to buy 
> things from people I don't see. I just find it hard to do business that way. 
> This means I don't like doing business where I have to call a company unless 
> I personally know the person on the other end of the phone when I have the 
> company's address and phone number. As far as sending my credit card number 
> to a company with the hope that they will send me the product well not me 
> folks. This becomes relevant in "I don't know how to order Mandrake with out 
> doing this." Point is with no local supplier it was Mandrake 8.2.
> 
> Back to installation now with Mandrake. I installed MD 8.2 and immediately 
> noted that it installed provided I chose 2D graphics and the "high intensity" 
> driver for XF86config as chosen by MD 8.2 and 1020 x 780 resolution. No 
> problems. Several minor issues. The screen flickers a little. So I decided to 
> install XF86 and XF86 config from SuSE as I did to RH. No problem 2 simple 
> instillations 2 hours and screen flicker problem solve. Ha Ha. SuSE8.2 and RH 
> 8.0 will not read the partition table from MD 8.2 so as far as SuSE and RH 
> are concerned the drive is not partitioned. No was back to the MD 8.2 and I 
> will update after I go on line.
> 
> On a more broad scale it will be noted that the three distributions discussed 
> of the five listed all reflect commercial distributions. Each one has been 
> modified from the standard. Two SuSE with YAST and RH with the Bluecurve have 
> been modified to such an extent that they are not usable for my installation. 
> This modification is something that I have great fears about with Mandrake 
> 9.0 in light of existing experience,
> 
> It will be noted that two distribution have not been discussed. Debian and 
> Gentoo. Both are not commercial, both are only readily available over the 
> internet with a high band width connection which I don't have. It could be 
> pointed here that Debian is available from people like "Cheap Bites" but that 
> has two complications. One being my concepts of money. The other brings in 
> Gentoo sort of. Gentoo is a distribution which is really not a traditional 
> distribution but one in which you choose what you want and how you want it. 
> Which packages and how you want them installed.
> 
> As far as I am concerned I am not currently technically qualified to configure 
> Debian or download Gentoo much less configure it but developing that 
> competency is where I am headed as I find the situation, issues, and problems 
> associated with SuSE, RH and Mandrake as acceptable as the one I encounter 
> with MS Windows are.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Frank
> 
>