[ltp] More war stories about Lenovo build quality
Adrian Walker
linux-thinkpad@linux-thinkpad.org
Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:54:20 -0400
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David --
I have an X60s with Redhat Fedora 6. It's been running for about a year.
No hardware problems, touch wood.
There's no fingerprint reader, and I have not got around to trying wireless
yet, but everything else works and seems an improvement on previous Linuxes.
The high end battery lasts more than 4 hours. Memory sticks and a 5-year
old external CD writer are plug and play.
So perhaps Fedora is gaining on Ubuntu?
HTH, -- Adrian
Internet Business Logic
A Wiki and SOA Endpoint for Executable Open Vocabulary English over SQL
Online at www.reengineeringllc.com Shared use is free
Adrian Walker
Reengineering
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 1:41 PM, David A. Desrosiers <desrod@gnu-designs.com>
wrote:
>
> I've had my shiny new Thinkpads (T61p/X61s) for 2-3 weeks now, and
> they're already going back to the depot for repair/replacement. I'm
> shocked and dismayed at the horrible build quality of these units.
>
> The X61s is going back first. It currently runs WinXP, so I can use
> the internal WWAN card to get on AT&T to work while on my 5 hours of
> commute per-day into the office.
>
> <rant state="begin">
>
> The issues with the X61s so far are:
>
> 1. Loose/floppy screen and hinge. I can pick up the laptop
> gently from the base, and the LCD will slowly lean back and
> flop over. If the LCD is anything but perfectly 90-degrees,
> it will either slowly close itself, or slowly lean
> backwards until it is horizontal with the table surface.
>
> 2. Fingerprint reader overheats and stops working (and because
> of that issue, I can no longer log into the machine _at
> all_, because it deleted the stored fingerprint data, which
> confuses the ThinkVantage Access Connections app, and forbids
> me from re-enrolling my fingerprints. I literally log in
> with a password, and it immediately logs me back out, even in
> Safe Mode). GRRR! Now I can't use it to work at all.
>
> 3. The LCD currently has 3 bad pixels, up from 1 bad pixel a
> few days ago. When it was new, there were zero bad pixels.
>
> 4. The battery life with the new battery (FRU/42T5247) using
> "Maximum Battery" strategy in WinXP is 45 minutes, tops.
>
> 5. The external wireless switch is loose, and tipping the
> laptop will engage/disengage the switch all the time. While
> on the train, the switch vibrates itself to the Off position
> dropping my VPN connection constantly. I've had to tape it in
> place to keep it from moving.
>
> I can't believe for laptops that are barely a month old, I've already
> run into this many problems with it.
>
> The T61p has its own share of issues, many of which are due to moving
> to the latest Ubuntu on the machine. I require the latest
> bleeding-edge distro, so I can test my FLOSS code against it, before
> distribution packagers go shipping broken packages that contain my
> code to thousands of users.
>
> The major outstanding issues with that are:
>
> 1. Fingerprint reader overheats excessively and then fails to
> function. Thinkfinger has some serious bugs related to
> this, which exposes my typed password in cleartext if I'm
> not careful.
>
> 2. The CPU regularly runs at 157F or higher, with nothing at
> all loaded or running. Because of this, I have to set the
> fan on full-speed at startup through APCI, which sounds
> like a jet engine in meetings and in the office.
>
> 3. At some random interval, the keyboard decides to "forget"
> how to use ctrl/alt/shift keys, and thus I can't function at
> all in X. I can't open new applications, because typing in
> them crashes the app. I can't use keyboard shortcuts, I
> can't function in existing shells. The only way to fix that
> is to go to System -> Preferences -> Keyboard, change it to
> something else (without typing anything, or I'll crash the
> Keyboard applet), then change it back again. It happens a
> few times a day, every day. VERRRRY frustrating. I don't
> know if this is hardware-driven or some bug in Ubuntu.
>
> 4. X is wildly unstable. I can reproducably get GNOME + X to
> completely crash back to a shell, recycling gdm, by simply
> trying to run anything in Wine. Sometimes if I just leave
> the machine idle with X running and walk away, I'll come
> back and be at a gdm login prompt, because at some point X
> dumped and recycled gdm again. This may be due to the
> unstable, proprietary NVidia drivers or something else. It
> was a huge mistake selecting NVidia as my graphics chipset
> for a laptop in Linux.
>
> 5. Wireless is only enabled via shell scripts. NetworkManager
> in Ubuntu does absolutely nothing, except take up
> resources. In Gutsy on my T42p, wpa_supplicant would start
> at boot time, read its config, and wireless would be
> enabled without logging in. With Hardy + NetworkManager, I
> have to physically log into the machine, open a shell, run
> a script to start wireless (basically modprobe, iwconfig,
> ifconfig commands), and then it starts.
>
> That isn't a Lenovo issue, of course. It's an Ubuntu issue.
> With each new Ubuntu release, more features are removed in
> favor of replacing them with broken applications which
> serve no logical purpose. Gutsy had no need for
> NetworkManager and networking worked flawlessly there.
>
> I'm about to give up 14+ years of working with and developing
> on Linux because it seems that with each new year, it gets more and
> more unstable, more and more things cease functioning, and I spend
> more time fighting the configuration of my own environment than using
> it to increase my productivity.
>
> I'm probably going to just cut bait and buy a Mac soon. At least I can
> still run all of my FLOSS packages there, and not ever have to worry
> about the hardware or functioning drivers/support.
>
> </rant state="end">
> --
> The linux-thinkpad mailing list home page is at:
> http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad
>
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David --<br><br>I have an X60s with Redhat Fedora 6. It's been running for about a year. No hardware problems, touch wood.<br><br>There's no fingerprint reader, and I have not got around to trying wireless yet, but everything else works and seems an improvement on previous Linuxes.<br>
<br>The high end battery lasts more than 4 hours. Memory sticks and a 5-year old external CD writer are plug and play. <br><br>So perhaps Fedora is gaining on Ubuntu? <br><br> HTH, -- Adrian<br>
<br>Internet Business Logic<br>A Wiki and SOA Endpoint for Executable Open Vocabulary English over SQL<br>Online at <a href="http://www.reengineeringllc.com">www.reengineeringllc.com</a> Shared use is free<br><br>Adrian Walker<br>
Reengineering<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 1:41 PM, David A. Desrosiers <<a href="mailto:desrod@gnu-designs.com">desrod@gnu-designs.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
I've had my shiny new Thinkpads (T61p/X61s) for 2-3 weeks now, and<br>
they're already going back to the depot for repair/replacement. I'm<br>
shocked and dismayed at the horrible build quality of these units.<br>
<br>
The X61s is going back first. It currently runs WinXP, so I can use<br>
the internal WWAN card to get on AT&T to work while on my 5 hours of<br>
commute per-day into the office.<br>
<br>
<rant state="begin"><br>
<br>
The issues with the X61s so far are:<br>
<br>
1. Loose/floppy screen and hinge. I can pick up the laptop<br>
gently from the base, and the LCD will slowly lean back and<br>
flop over. If the LCD is anything but perfectly 90-degrees,<br>
it will either slowly close itself, or slowly lean<br>
backwards until it is horizontal with the table surface.<br>
<br>
2. Fingerprint reader overheats and stops working (and because<br>
of that issue, I can no longer log into the machine _at<br>
all_, because it deleted the stored fingerprint data, which<br>
confuses the ThinkVantage Access Connections app, and forbids<br>
me from re-enrolling my fingerprints. I literally log in<br>
with a password, and it immediately logs me back out, even in<br>
Safe Mode). GRRR! Now I can't use it to work at all.<br>
<br>
3. The LCD currently has 3 bad pixels, up from 1 bad pixel a<br>
few days ago. When it was new, there were zero bad pixels.<br>
<br>
4. The battery life with the new battery (FRU/42T5247) using<br>
"Maximum Battery" strategy in WinXP is 45 minutes, tops.<br>
<br>
5. The external wireless switch is loose, and tipping the<br>
laptop will engage/disengage the switch all the time. While<br>
on the train, the switch vibrates itself to the Off position<br>
dropping my VPN connection constantly. I've had to tape it in<br>
place to keep it from moving.<br>
<br>
I can't believe for laptops that are barely a month old, I've already<br>
run into this many problems with it.<br>
<br>
The T61p has its own share of issues, many of which are due to moving<br>
to the latest Ubuntu on the machine. I require the latest<br>
bleeding-edge distro, so I can test my FLOSS code against it, before<br>
distribution packagers go shipping broken packages that contain my<br>
code to thousands of users.<br>
<br>
The major outstanding issues with that are:<br>
<br>
1. Fingerprint reader overheats excessively and then fails to<br>
function. Thinkfinger has some serious bugs related to<br>
this, which exposes my typed password in cleartext if I'm<br>
not careful.<br>
<br>
2. The CPU regularly runs at 157F or higher, with nothing at<br>
all loaded or running. Because of this, I have to set the<br>
fan on full-speed at startup through APCI, which sounds<br>
like a jet engine in meetings and in the office.<br>
<br>
3. At some random interval, the keyboard decides to "forget"<br>
how to use ctrl/alt/shift keys, and thus I can't function at<br>
all in X. I can't open new applications, because typing in<br>
them crashes the app. I can't use keyboard shortcuts, I<br>
can't function in existing shells. The only way to fix that<br>
is to go to System -> Preferences -> Keyboard, change it to<br>
something else (without typing anything, or I'll crash the<br>
Keyboard applet), then change it back again. It happens a<br>
few times a day, every day. VERRRRY frustrating. I don't<br>
know if this is hardware-driven or some bug in Ubuntu.<br>
<br>
4. X is wildly unstable. I can reproducably get GNOME + X to<br>
completely crash back to a shell, recycling gdm, by simply<br>
trying to run anything in Wine. Sometimes if I just leave<br>
the machine idle with X running and walk away, I'll come<br>
back and be at a gdm login prompt, because at some point X<br>
dumped and recycled gdm again. This may be due to the<br>
unstable, proprietary NVidia drivers or something else. It<br>
was a huge mistake selecting NVidia as my graphics chipset<br>
for a laptop in Linux.<br>
<br>
5. Wireless is only enabled via shell scripts. NetworkManager<br>
in Ubuntu does absolutely nothing, except take up<br>
resources. In Gutsy on my T42p, wpa_supplicant would start<br>
at boot time, read its config, and wireless would be<br>
enabled without logging in. With Hardy + NetworkManager, I<br>
have to physically log into the machine, open a shell, run<br>
a script to start wireless (basically modprobe, iwconfig,<br>
ifconfig commands), and then it starts.<br>
<br>
That isn't a Lenovo issue, of course. It's an Ubuntu issue.<br>
With each new Ubuntu release, more features are removed in<br>
favor of replacing them with broken applications which<br>
serve no logical purpose. Gutsy had no need for<br>
NetworkManager and networking worked flawlessly there.<br>
<br>
I'm about to give up 14+ years of working with and developing<br>
on Linux because it seems that with each new year, it gets more and<br>
more unstable, more and more things cease functioning, and I spend<br>
more time fighting the configuration of my own environment than using<br>
it to increase my productivity.<br>
<br>
I'm probably going to just cut bait and buy a Mac soon. At least I can<br>
still run all of my FLOSS packages there, and not ever have to worry<br>
about the hardware or functioning drivers/support.<br>
<br>
</rant state="end"><br>
<font color="#888888">--<br>
The linux-thinkpad mailing list home page is at:<br>
<a href="http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad" target="_blank">http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad</a><br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>
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